How do you bridge the gap between sales and marketing when you’re in a product-led growth organization? In this episode, Nick sits down with Alessandra Colaci, VP of marketing at Mailshake and host of the “Marketing is Hard” podcast to discuss:
- Why sales and marketing alignment is crucial for companies operating in a product-led sales model
- The importance of sales and marketing members developing their personal brand through social channels, and how organizations can influence and encourage social posting without being overly prescriptive
- Alessandra’s journey in creating the “Marketing is Hard” podcast, and how throwaway tweets can sometimes lead to more work than you may be expecting
This episode is perfect for anyone growing sales and marketing in product-led companies, and be sure to check out the Marketing is Hard podcast, coming out soon!
Nick: Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Mind the Gap. Enablix’s only podcast about sales and marketing alignment. I’m your host Nick Ziech-Lopez and today I am joined by Alessandra Colaci.
Alessandra, how’s it going?
Alessandra: I’m great. How are you?
Nick: I am well. I actually found you via a Twitter thread. I think this is our first Twitter appearance.
Before we get into the Twitter thread and your new project, could you tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Alessandra: Yeah, sure.
I’m in my marketing career and have been working in marketing for about 15 or more years. I have focused on mostly startups in the really early phase, and so a lot of times I’m the first marketing hire or like early on in a small team. Then, I usually grow and scale a team and each channel.
I like to say I’m a deep generalist because I definitely have been very personally involved in every single marketing channel. But now I’m currently at Mailshake, which is a fantastic sales engagement tool that really looks at how we can get multiple channels and have people engage with the prospects and leads. I love the culture here. It’s been a really good fit for just trying new things.
I’m sure we’ll get the chance to talk a little bit about some of those things, but that’s where I’m at right now.
Nick: You’re kind of a Jack of all trades and also the master of all trades.
Alessandra: I like the distinction. I think it’s very important to really sit within each channel throughout your career and that way you understand the overall strategy.
Nick: I think that the general advice about how to be a generalist misses. It’s like being a generalist, you have to be a little bit good at everything, but you still need to be a lot bit good at some things. Or else your status as a generalist, is like when you are either the bench player, the utility player, and that’s not really that good at any one thing.
So, if you could start with that one thing, whatever channel that is, spread the love, and pretty soon you’re just pretty good at everything. I think that’s what people want out of the generalist role.
Alessandra: Yeah, I think it’s an important distinction.
I mean a lot of times people really just very briefly touched on everything, but I try to be very closely involved or an individual contributor on each channel so that I could really understand, what are the mechanics of it, what’s possible, all that kind of stuff.
So I wasn’t just telling my team something that wasn’t something that I knew personally really experienced.
Nick: Right. So you had marketing for what is primarily a sales tool, is that correct?
Alessandra: Yeah, correct.
Well, so actually we have a pretty even mix of sales and marketing folks that use our software. We do have marketing agencies and PR agencies as well as people who are lead builders and things like that.
Then, we have sales teams anywhere from small to mid-sized companies. We’re primarily focused on SMBs just because a lot of times people are trying to either do founder led sales or grow as a sales team initially for their startups.
That’s kind of our bread and butter and what we have as our core audience.
Nick: Now I’m interested because most of the people that we have on the show are enterprise sales or marketers, right. You’re talking about sales cycles and we’re trying to get it, whether it be leads or demand gen or whatever that is.
But Mailshake, correct me if I’m wrong is primarily product led growth not enterprise growth. Is that true? And do you guys have a sales team?
Because I think there is this idea that if you’re PLG you don’t need sales. What is that like for you guys?
Alessandra: I think with us what’s interesting is we are very product led.
We focus on simplicity, growing with what the market needs, what they really truly need. I think a lot of times people add the bells and whistles, but we try to focus on keeping it simple with what they really need. That leads to word of mouth because a lot of people are talking about our product and saying hey, this is what I use. Especially if they’re kind of similar sized companies or industries, but that’s nice because that creates that motion that has kind of word of mouth. Then we have a lot of focus on how we grow that with brand awareness and all that.
I think there’s the phases that people go through as they go through, even something that they are coming in through word of mouth. A lot of times they need to remove friction.
It’s very hard as a marketing team to understand all the friction points that you need to remove for every single person on that. We have a vast majority of people who do self-select, we have clear pricing of everything on the site, they can go through and sign up directly, but then we have anywhere from 20 to 30% of people coming in that want that personal touch. They want to say things like, I want to talk to someone. I have some questions. Or maybe they’re even earlier in the cycle and they’re like, I just need to learn more about cold email or cold outreach.
So our sales team is really impactful for that because whether someone’s really advanced in the sales cycle or not, I think they just need someone. They need to get on that call, see a demo, or talk to someone. Sometimes it’s checking those boxes that they think are already checked, but they need to confirm and really have a personal touch of and take it to the place where they understand this is definitely for them.
Nick: I like what you said there.
Maybe they just need to get over the hump or they’re just starting out and they want to talk to someone. I think every buyer is a little bit different in that way.
Now, with the sales team that is constantly working, I want to assume mostly inbound sales motions of like hey, I would like to talk to a salesperson. How do you enable sales and how do you find opportunities to work better with sales in that environment?
Is it meeting with them? Is it talking with them?
Can you give me some advice for how to enable sales in a product led growth environment?
We are pretty quick with communication. A lot of times we are just with any of our teams, we talk via slack or we’ll communicate with video messaging or audio messaging, so we do that a lot with our sales team.
Then we also kind of sit in each other’s meetings, so optional invites to each other’s meetings. Our sales manager every single week will join the marketing meeting, if there’s anything that he has as a need or a question that’s brought up or if there’s questions we have for him, then that’s a really good forum for us to do that.
But also our entire marketing team is an optional invite for both the outbound and inbound sales team. That’s been really great. I think we’ve done more of that in the last few months.
It’s just even to just sit in and listen. Even if we’re saying hey, we can’t actively participate in every meeting. But if we are like, I’m going to join, I’m just going to hear what you have to say, it helps us.
We’re growing the team pretty fast right now and both inbound and outbound teams. There’s such a perspective from all the people that are coming in that are new. They have feedback for what they’re hearing and we can really react quickly to that and say okay, how do we enable you?
How do we like to provide things from the marketing side to make this better for you?
I think that perspective, and I imagine that many of these, especially in sales, may have used Mailshake in the past as well, which has to be a huge benefit to that. I think having the sales reps that are like looking for, whether it be help or assistance or they have their own ideas. That’s huge simply because they’re looking for interaction there.
Alessandra: Mmm hmm.
Nick: I know that there are a lot of meetings/call recording softwares and stuff like that. The product that I want, that I don’t think exists is it records the calls all day and says, all right for this week, here’s the two hours of snippet that you need to hear. I’ve taken all the important parts of all the calls and that’s what it is.
Because you had mentioned the calendar. I’ve been new, you’ve been new. You end up with like 20 hours of meetings in one day of your calendar and triple booked everything. Then, you’re like I no longer know what to go to.
Alessandra: Yeah, I agree. I think that’d be great.
Our sales manager has tried to condense it and he’s kind of put together a document that we have specific personas that we market to. It’s been great because that’s the least like pairing it down. But, having it automated would be awesome.
I think even within my own team, there are meetings that make it very clear, hey, this is optional for you. If you need to join and join for only part of it, or if you need to just listen in and not actively participate, don’t feel pressure to just because you’re on the call to actively participate.
I like that because then me or my team members can join even some more marketing meetings if they just want to kind of get a feel for what we’re talking about. But they can be working on other stuff and just kind of passively listening, which is a nice balance. Because you really have to make it clear that it’s not pressure to be engaged or to participate fully.
Nick: I think that like the working remotely thing did that, where there was like a hump. I don’t know about you, but there was a time where everybody was in every meeting a couple of months in, like everybody had to be.
Then, I think we got to this space of if you’re not really contributing or taking anything, it’s okay to not be in a meeting.
Being busy is not, or like seeming busy is not graffiti. I think we’ve now settled into this daytante of people self-selecting into the stuff that will be helpful to them and us also getting back time we don’t need.
Alessandra: Yeah and that’s it.
I think that’s a culture shift in each company too. I’ve seen some companies who are doing fully asynchronous meetings and they use things like Yak or different tools to just say like hey, let’s all have a play, some kind of thread where we have our status updates or things like that. I love that.
I think at Mailshake, we have actually been remote for the whole time that we’ve been a company, so it was kind of before everyone else was trying this, we’ve really perfected the way that we can be asynchronous and communicate that. I think that the most important thing is like if I message you at 10:00 PM it doesn’t mean I need a response at 10:00 PM. You know?
I think it goes back to that kind of mindset that has to shift within the company or like finding the right cadence of that.
Nick: I’m going to get #asynch2022 trending.
Alessandra: I love it. I will support that!
Nick: Yeah, it sounds good.
I want to shift into something we were talking about recently, and I see it everywhere. Social advocacy for your brand on social networks and getting your employees. But more specifically, I think sales and marketing, it applies to post.
Now I have my viewpoints on it.
Can I hear from your marketing perspective? Are you trying to get employees to post about your brand? Obviously you don’t want to control or tell them what to post. What do you see as best practices? What are you trying to do? Can you tell me just a little bit about what that does?
Alessandra: Yeah, I think I’ve always been an advocate of social as a I mean, I’ll preface this with these are multiple terms that I don’t necessarily like, but it’s what the industry has applied to them.
So personal branding, I feel, is very important for anyone in their career. Then, that kind of led me to looking at what some other people in this space were doing. Then seeing how impactful it was for some people in the sales space like Gong or even one of our competitor’s outreach to be really active and to be creating a space where people can build their influence.
So not just when they’re there at the company, but even after. I really found that something was exciting to me because I felt like we could accomplish brand awareness while also helping people in their current status in their career as well. So I was like hey, how do we do that? How do we do that in a way authentic and not just like us pushing things for people to post.
For some people, they were really comfortable with it out the gate, mostly as marketers. On the marketing team, a lot of us were just like yeah, we create content all the time. This is awesome.
So a lot of people in my team really leaned into it, but then we opened up these forums where we’d have meetings once a month to have the sales team on there as well. We’d talk through things like what we’re learning, what’s working well for us on LinkedIn specifically.
That ended up going really well because there was this open conversation and it was kind of like if you want to participate, great. If you don’t, you can be kind of more of a passive listener. Then when you’re ready, jump in, and start creating content.
Then more recently for the sales team, we were like well, we can give you prompts and we can actually help you with topics that might be helpful. Especially if they’re new to the team, so there might be things that are relevant to them or blog posts that we have that you can create content from. So that was the enablement side of it.
Then we moved to a bit of a buddy system where people who are on the marketing team who have been doing this for longer, work with the sales team to help them and answer any questions or workshop any kind of post that they’re working on.
That really worked well.
I think you hit on something that I think is missing from the reason that people don’t post it and maybe people don’t want to post them and that’s absolutely fine.
I mean honestly, prior to coming to Enablix I was not a poster. I didn’t get it.
It was for two reasons. One, very little of what I saw did I find exciting or entertaining. I think that you need to feel the spark. You have to be like oh, I want to share this.
You’re not sharing it because you’re supposed to share, you’re sharing it because it’s the thing that you want more people to see. If that’s not there, then don’t do it. I think you could see when it’s forced. Right.
Let me ask you, I’ll put you on the spot. Do you agree with compensating for social posting or should it be more organic? What’s your take?
Alessandra: I think for us, we’re really focused on how we do it from a perspective of their voice, you know. There are times that we may have a launch for example, and we will actually say, hey here’s this seated post and we actually use LinkedIn as a way for us to like draft a post for them. But, we are very much like this is a draft. You don’t have to say it this way, you can change it.
Another thing we do for those launches is we usually have a fun video with employees or something like that. It’s not like the cheesy, forced feeling kind of thing. It has a fun angle so people really enjoy internally posting those because they’re not the same old, same old. They don’t feel very promotional, but also externally we’ve had people really love it and say, I’ve heard about you guys. This is what really just seals the deal for me.
I love your brand. I love your team. So we kind of provide both of those aspects when it’s something that we want to announce. A majority of it, I say 95% of it is whatever they want to talk about. A lot of times because we are salespeople selling to salespeople, a lot of times it is a really good fit. Because they’re talking about their experience in sales and all that, but we have people talk about things they’re passionate about.
Our content manager loves reading, so she talks about books she’s reading. Our partner manager talks about mental health. There’s really a wide variety of things that they feel empowered to speak about.
Also, they’re not being curated or having to sign off on a bunch of a bunch of people within the company saying, only post this or that. So that’s been really great because it’s worked well for them to really find their audience and their community individually.
I mean you can almost tell when someone’s taking a seated post, just re-shares it for nothing, but I think you hit on a key thing there. If you’re a salesperson selling to salespeople right. At my day job at Enablix, I’m in marketing to salespeople and marketers and I think that’s why it works.
I’ve had other jobs where we were selling to engineers and so things like having medium articles was really important or like a sub stack of hey, you’re actually contributing because it was a different medium. Pun intended.
But, I think that we’re like sales and marketing right now hanging out on LinkedIn. They’re hanging out on Twitter during work and that’s where to be. It’s just being where they are and then trying to incentivize other people to do that as well. Because it’s effective community building and selling.
Alessandra: I’d say it’s a life skill that it’s even a lot of times the hesitancy that people have is not necessarily that they’re like, I don’t want to do it. It’s a tough thing to start. Right.
Even me, I’m in marketing and I always joke about copywriting, I hate it. It’s my nemesis. I just don’t like doing it. Even if I’m good at it, sometimes I think it’s just like getting that motion and understanding that there’s permission from yourself to do that. That’s really important.
A lot of times we’ve had people have that aha moment where they’re like, I didn’t think I wanted to really post or be active. Now I realize that this really has all these other benefits that are helping me grow personally and professionally.
But they just need that little nudge and that little help to do that. Also just be like, I think we were very much about experimenting, seeing what works, and doesn’t work in our marketing. It’s the same thing, see what works. Not every post is going to be a slam dunk. Some will have crickets and some will be great.
Nick: Yeah. God, I love that.
Like a sales quote is getting so many likes on LinkedIn or something like that. I’m joking. Nobody should do that.
By the way, when you said taking risks, doing new things in marketing, I do want to take a second and say if you guys go to Mailshake.com. I believe it’s just your home video. The interactive tour video is one of the cooler, first of all, that’s you, that’s kind of cool. Right.
Second of all, a really cool thing is I don’t know that I’ve ever seen enough, maybe I’m not going to enough websites on the internet, but where did you get the inspiration for that?
Where did that come from?
Alessandra: I love video. I used to actually have an agency that was specifically mostly video focused.
We’ve just been like, how do we use video more? Then, I had previously seen interactive videos or ones that were kind of personalized. But actually one of our partners, I don’t know how to say his last name. I think it’s pronounced zeros, he had on his website this little bubble that was a video kind of intro. I was like oh, let me check this out.
I come from a technical background, so I checked out the source code. I’m like hmm, this is this thing called full and then I looked at Tolstoy. It’s actually gotolstoy.com. Then I was like this is so cool, I’ve been wanting to do this. We could do that with Vid Yard, but I wanted a kind of a stand alone tool for it.
I was like this is what we need too because people come in, I think with any marketing site, they come in and they’re like, is this for me? Me specifically? Is this for my situation or for my industry or something like that?
So we’re like what if we do something like that is to choose your own adventure if you will for them for their specific role and you how they would use Mailshake. It’s been great. I mean it’s one of those things where a lot of people engage with it and I think it’s helping them get further along in just understanding what the use case is.
That might be on our website within a month or two. I love the idea. I had not seen it before. I don’t know if it’s new and I don’t know what it is, but I love the idea.
You had mentioned posting on social, I actually wanted to take this chance to call it a couple of the last few things that you had posted on social and get your take on it. Kind of explain that Gram, but for Mine the Gap.
So this one is a little bit ago, it’s a post on LinkedIn that starts with a public service announcement, never start an email with not sure if you got my last email.
Coming from an email automation service, do you see a lot of that? I don’t know if you see users’ emails, do you see a lot of bad emails? Is that a pet peeve, and what can people do to make it third touch, fourth touch, better?
Alessandra: I see it.
I think I’m just more aware of my inbox and what I’m seeing there because obviously we want to show people to do it right. I think all of us equally are just like oh, we kind of roll our eyes at some things that are everyone’s doing. I think one of the things that we see everyone doing that’s not unique to now, it’s just forever, that people treat their each email as if someone’s seeing every single one of them. You really need to catch attention every time.
What’s interesting to me is even if someone has expressed interest and they may kind of drop off and you still have to catch interest again or reiterate people are busy, their inboxes are full.
That same day, I got an email that said that I’ve never seen your previous email. I don’t even know who you are. I don’t know what this is. You know maybe something I’m interested in, if I had been more of leading with value and context it might’ve caught my attention. But, instead it blended in with the rest of the inbox.
What I think it does is it puts on me, the sender, not sure if you saw my last email. Why do I care? That’s the wrong pronoun to use buddy. I don’t care about you, I care about me and my time.
Nick: So I like your idea that each impression needs to be distinct. Each impression needs to be like the first time. That’s how it has value or not. The idea of this only makes sense after this, I don’t know if cold email is the, perhaps an email newsletter. I see the ideas for a choose your own adventure and email. That’s cool, but cold email is not the place for that.
I agree with you there.
Alessandra: Um, so I think I want to say…
Nick: Oh, go ahead.
Alessandra: I’m just going to say and I think as it brings up an important point of any channel. That’s not just cold email. But really in general, even as marketers, we think oh they saw an ad before or whatever.
I always joke you can have something bright red flashing letters and people still need to be reminded of it. Repetition is our friends. It’s something that people will know more about you or it’ll sink in their brain the more you do it.
Nick: Speaking of, you were saying you might’ve been excited. But to throw you off, I want to take another post you said. Where you said your enthusiasm is showing in a demo you were given the AAE was texting.
Now, first I’m assuming this is a real thing. But can I ask, I don’t know whether I’ve been on the receiving or providing end of that. What was it about a person just like literally so uninterested in showing you what they were doing, they were just kinda like off to the side with their phone.
Alessandra: Yeah. They were a hundred percent phoning it in.
I mean, it wasn’t just texting.
Nick: Pun intended.
Alessandra: Haha yeah. It was zoom, but we’ll take the button. They were so, you know, I feel like I was disturbing them and I was genuinely interested in their software.
I was really, you know, they’re actually a pretty large player in space. I felt like, are you here with me or is this, you know?
I think from the start to end that really pointed out that I understand, especially with AEs a lot of times you’re saying the same thing a thousand times. Literally a thousand times. But if you can find the spark by finding what makes that person passionate, what the true pain point is.
On the opposite spectrum, I’ve talked about some really fantastic demos before. Where I was like, it opened my eyes instead of to like potential. I was like oh my gosh, I didn’t think about that. This is great. I’m so excited. I was pumped. I was more pumped after the demo than before the demo.
This was definitely the opposite where I’m like you’re literally texting in the middle of it.
So yeah, not a great experience.
Nick: To what you’re saying earlier, they should know they’re selling to a salesperson or marketing person. We are the people that care about that kind of impression.
Specifically, you’re selecting an audience that’s going to care if you, if you’re showing up or not, and you’re not.
Nick: So I want to talk about one last post. It was a tweet you had the other day, and I want to talk a little bit more about it.
It was, I am thinking of starting a podcast or who wants to start a podcast with me called Marketing is Hard and we’re just guesting.
So first of all, before we get into what happened, what prompted the tweet?
Was it a bad day? What made you think about that?
Alessandra: That’s, what’s hilarious.
I think people are like oh, was it before you really hated marketing that day?
I was just kind of thinking through all the things that some things that we were trying that were working, some things that weren’t, and a lot of times it’s so surprising. There were things that were like slam dunk. Awesome and it doesn’t work. Then the opposite things that were like hmm, this is probably not going to be great and were oh, this is amazing.
I think it was more just like me thinking about how, if you don’t have that experimentation mindset, you’re not going to figure it out, you know? Because you may copy someone else or you may do exactly what some other playbooks say and you still not win.
I kind of was thinking through that and I was like let me send this joke tweet. I’m completely not expecting it.
Alessandra: I was like two people are going to like this at most, then it just blew up. I was so excited about it.
Nick: Well, I think a lot of us in the marketing profession are yeah, it should be okay to just be guessing.
Thank you. Because there’s this and I think coming from other professions. Coming from engineering and product management or something like that. You shouldn’t be guessing, but I think when your job is to grab attention, that sometimes that’s the best you can do, is saying like I’ve got data.
We had Jason Oakley, ask an expert about validating messaging. Something he said is, at the end of the day you just have to pick, even if you don’t have weather data. You have to pick and maybe that’s rooted in guessing or an intelligent guess or something like that.
I think that there’s an imposter syndrome that goes along with that. It makes people nervous. It sounds like something people want to hear about because you’re actually doing it. Is that correct?
Alessandra: Yeah. So keep on having the most marketing, everything to happen from that.
Because after that I was in meetings and things and I was just kinda like this tweet seems to be blowing up, but I was just not really paying attention to it.
After I got out of the meetings, this has struck a chord. I kind of have a thought, maybe I should actually do this. Maybe you should make a landing page, but I don’t know. Maybe not and then towards the end of that first day, I’m like I know what I have got to do.
I got hit while the iron was hot. You reminded me of when people are like, here’s my SoundCloud link. You know, I was like it’s gonna happen.
Nick: Hahaha, that’s exactly it. This is doing numbers.
Alessandra: I’m like, you know what? I got to make a landing page. The funniest thing is how, you know it was like, so metta. Because I was just throwing something out there and joking around. Then all of a sudden it turned into I’m actually doing this podcast.
It’s a perfect example of you just trying things. Like you said, educated guesses, but then when you see that spark, you roll with them and you actually capitalize on the moment.
Nick: We’re going to have on the landing page here or on our podcast landing page we’ll have the link to yours, but that’s marketingishard.ck.page. Is that correct?
Alessandra: Yeah and funny story about that.
I have an old active account and I was trying to throw it together. I think that’s what’s so exciting about this. I was like, I need to make a landing page quickly and I don’t have a website for it. I don’t have a domain or anything.
So actually I used a Convert Kit. I was like, this is so easy, but the inner perfectionist in me was dying because I was like I have to do it quickly. I have to just get out there and ship it. But it was really cool to be able to see that happen in real time and just be like let’s just get MVP out there as quickly as possible.
Nick: I’m imagining…
We might have you write and ask an expert how to get a highly converting landing page in under two minutes. Step one, have a tweet with 30,000 likes.
Alessandra: Hahaha yeah. Totally.
I think it’s so interesting to me that it’s like a lot of times that the first version is just, be good enough. You know, it can be fine.
You can iterate from there and now obviously I’m working on kind of how to make this happen. I was sharing the learning with everyone. I had a double opt-in on it initially and it was going pretty well, but then I was like well, I don’t really need to double opt in. I can just clean the list later and then it just started to blow up in terms of the opt-in rate.
Then coincidentally, I read a tweet right around that same time that ended up saying it’s a 60% improvement if you don’t have double opt-in. It as well as things, keep your list clean afterwards, but don’t do it on the front end.
Nick: Yeah. Yeah. Gathering now clean later. That’s the mantra of a single opt-in?
I’m excited to hear more about the podcast. I’m excited to see what comes out. I’m not going to hold you to any specific timeline, but I think this idea is whether it’s imposter syndrome, or whatever that is. It’s hard. A lot of things are guesses and to hear more from people.
I’m sure your stories as well, of what works, what doesn’t work.
The fact that it was started by a guess.
Alessandra: Yeah, totally. I mean, that’s what’s so great about it.
I want to make it fun. I am an avid podcast listener, but I want this to be fun and real and as raw as it can be and try different things with it.
I think really seeing what we can do that’s not being done with all these other podcasts out there. I like that you have some things in this podcast that I think are really unique, so the same thing. I want to really have fun with it and just see what we can do to teach people and make it helpful too. Not just the marketing is the hard part, but marketing is hard and you can make better and better guesses.
Nick: Yeah, exactly.
I think the format of having somebody ask them the same five questions and have a different, I think that’s like a little bit played out. I think just having authentic conversations about a topic that people are either they’re wondering about in the back of their mind or they can’t seem to get it. I think that’s what podcasts are for.
That and obviously spreading misinformation about COVID. That’s important.
Alessandra: That’s everywhere though. That is not the plan, right? Haha.
Nick: Yeah. A hundred percent. So, before we get into the misinformation section of our pod, no.
As we wrap up here, is there anything else you would like to plug? The floor is yours. Is there anything you’d like to tell me?
Alessandra: No, I mean I think now obviously find me on Twitter. Because I think I have been more engaged there and really finding a good community there. I’ve mostly been on LinkedIn.
I’m in both of those places, but I’m always here for anyone who’s really having that imposter syndrome at the moment or maybe changing careers or things like that.
Because I know how that goes, even at the senior leadership level. A lot of times you just need a second opinion and you need someone to like chime in.
So definitely here for anyone who might want to connect on social.
Nick: That’s actually my next podcast. It’s called imposter syndrome.
We’re going to sit down with executives and we’re going to talk about how even if that’s actually a good don’t sit don’t take that. I think that’s good…
Alessandra: Because I absolutely do that because that sounds fantastic.
Nick: Yeah. First guest, a VP of marketing, Alessandra Colaci.
I love it because it’s one of those like unsaid things that everyone has. No matter what, you could be 30 years in your career and it’s still something that comes up periodically. I always encourage people to know that you’re not alone in that.
Nick: Thank you so much for taking the time today. I really appreciate our discussion, ladies and gentlemen, Alessandra Colaci. Thank you.
Alessandra: Thank you.
Nick: This has been Mind the Gap, a podcast about sales and marketing alignment put on by Enablix. My name is Nick Ziech-Lopez. Thanks for listening.